The Tired Old Sewing Circle
July 25, 2008
There’s a plethora or conservative blogs here in Montana now, quite a change from a few years back when we had two intellectual extremes, Dave Budge and Eric Coobs, and a few in between. These days, with Big Sky Cairn, The Hammond Report (Coobs’ replacement), Missoulapolis, the Hardliner, Rabid Sanity and a host of others, the Dextra is brimming with activity. And that’s a good thing – a few of us lefties love to make the rounds and stir things up.
A Pew Research Center study reports the following:
Judged by their answers to three news knowledge questions, the most informed audiences belong to the political magazines, Rush Limbaugh’s radio show, the O’Reilly Factor, news magazines, and online news sources. Close behind are the regular audiences for NPR and the Daily Show.Audiences with the highest educational achievement, by far, are the literary magazines and online news outlets. Readers of news magazines, political magazines and business magazines, listeners of Rush Limbaugh and NPR, and viewers of the Daily Show, and C-SPAN also are much more likely than the average person to have a college degree.
That makes sense – I’ve been encountering more and more smart conservatives, and debates are getting harder all the time. Just a couple of observations, however:
For one, conservatives usually know their own minds very well, but little of the other side. They are much more likely to draw caricatures of liberals and progressives, and attack those strawmen. The most ardent practitioner of this habit is Dave Rye (followed closely by Wiley Cody – read this for a classic example), who is perpetually framing his argument with the preface “Here’s what liberals think”. Dave is now a talk show host down in Billings, and not a blogger, and to fill air time, I am told, he allows liberals on. That’s unusual – his predecessor, Dave Berg, engaged in the Limbaugh method – he would allow opponents a narrow window up against the break or simply hang up on them. Truth is, with Berg and Limbaugh and all the other right wing yakkers, that they don’t want opposition viewpoints. Talk radio is a propaganda exercise, and balance is an anathema to propaganda.
The result is conservatives talking to other conservatives, backslapping, pontificating and validating one another without interferences from other viewpoints. I noticed this phenomenon in the blogs, and called it the “right wing circle jerk“, since I have no sense of propriety.
This is what I see in our new (and old) right wing bloggers. Craig Sprout was initially invited to be a writer at Montana Netroots, and very shortly after that announced he would not partake. Wiley Cody has some fancy explanation for why he never leaves that site. Dave Budge told me a few months back that he was not coming to this web site again. The right wing proprietors don’t get out much, and it’s a shame. The very best that we can do for one another is debate. It’s a complicated world, and odds are that everyone is partly right and partly wrong. (In the real world “free” markets have positive impacts, as do government-run social programs.) We create false dichotomies, we demonize. And the only outcome is polarization.
But in my experience it is mostly the righties who insulate themselves. Jay Stevens makes the rounds, as do I, as do Wulfgar and Lamnidae, Shane Mason and Colby Natale. We’re constantly stirring it up over there, but there’s nothing coming the other way. I am led to conclude that the conservative bloggers are not confident enough in their own ideas and abilities to withstand the heat of a fiery debate. They retreat to their circle, talk amongst themselves, talk about us, and only engage us unwillingly when we come visit them.
That’s a shame. The Montana blogs are rich now with smart and educated participants full of energy and ideas. We should be having more fun than we are. Pity the poor conservative who doesn’t know enough of his own mind to take it on a shopping trip.
July 25, 2008 at 9:21 am
This reminds me of the discussion on this site about LitW’s Anna a few months ago. Why do people refuse to leave the protection of their websites for a little social interaction? I’m sure their therapists and/or parents could answer that.
Anyway, it is a shame. Right now, all we have to rely on for fun is the usual spectacle: liberals pissing on each other.
July 25, 2008 at 9:28 am
Where – where? Show me where. The liberal blogs are full of old men in depends. I’m about there.
July 25, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Before I get too deep into this, let me just remind everyone of the scorpion and the frog.
Ribbit.
For my own participation (and lack thereof) at MTNR, things were — and still are — a function of time and desire, both of which were (and still are) lacking. I know it amazes and shocks some people, but I do have commitments and interests outside of blogging. Not only that, but to me, MTNR was evolving hard to the left, and that was fine with me, so I didn’t see any value in writing there.
As is the case with most of us, I do this for my own enjoyment and gratification, and my motivation is to try to maximize those.
Please tell me that you didn’t write that with a straight face. Good gravy, if I had a nickel for every time you popped over with a generic comment about “right-wingers,” I’d be retired.
Cripes, between you, fils and Natale, I’ve been psychoanalyzed by the rankest amateurs in the state, and you guys still expect me to come by and visit? Or open my doors so that you can come on in?
Ribbit.
I like debate — especially when goodwill is assumed, and motivations aren’t questioned.
There are other thoughts I have, but it’s getting past my bedtime, and tomorrow I have to
continue oppressing minorities and vagina-americanstake out the garbage and mow the lawn.July 26, 2008 at 7:49 am
Good grief – did you write that with a straight face? I’ve never been to your place where you haven’t been ready to jump me from the alley. You’re the first one to question motivations, though you do it in passive aggressive fashion, claiming “humor” as a defense for your lowest snipes.
Nah – I think you’re a bit like Wiley Cody – you do venture out but get your fingers burned, and retreat to a place where you are comfortable. This was never more apparent than when you shut off comments at your site. You can’t take the heat, and closed the kitchen.
That you now say it’s because of lack of goodwill is comical, like Don Rickels closing every act with assurances that he really loved the people he had just assaulted.
July 26, 2008 at 9:08 am
The prosecution rests.
July 26, 2008 at 9:23 am
You’re so cute, Mark, and yet so predictable in your remarks.
July 26, 2008 at 9:27 am
I have no problem taking heat, I love to jump into it. I am called many names. But with you, the aggression is of the passive variety. You’re very angry, but you usually mask it.
Shutting off comments was a giveaway. That said more about you than any string of words you have ever put together.
You are an upstanding guy, really smart, and you run a blog that has really thoughtful and insightful stuff. People really admire you.
There. I did it. That’s how you debate Craig Sprout. You curtsy at the entrance. You endure his sidewinder swipes and always maintain a respectful posture. That way, he wins without competing.
July 26, 2008 at 2:09 pm
it’s difference of opinions that make horse races – Mark Twain.
i love it when someone disagrees with me on my site. it should be fun for everyone if you just don’t take it too seriously. we’re not supreme omnipotents and the things we say do not set the course of history fer chrissakes. it should be lively discussion and a little spice is ok as long as you don’t forget to keep a sense of humor.
July 26, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I love differences but hate it when I get bested by someone. I don’t lose well, even though I lose often. Makes me wonder why I do this.
July 27, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Some “sewing circle.” We righties don’t even get around to each other’s sites that much. There are other ’spheres out there after all.
July 27, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I do give kudos to Mark for taking his views to carol’s blogopolis.
As for LitW, their registration is a bit much.
July 28, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Heritage Foundation, Inc. supplies the lines, babble-radio amplifies to the masses. If Hoffer is even close, the listening masses need AM jocks to drown their self-hate. Fake authoritarian personalities are “on offense” consantly to protect the real power mongers destroying our Constitution and country. Neat trick.